Skeptic

[NeverMore]

Pretty interesting in that it shows atheists can be just as closed-minded as religious folk. His remark about the battery struck me as odd in that the energy from it did go somewhere and is still out there in some form.

[Tee]

The battery comparison struck me as well. What's the point of a battery if not transferring energy from one place to another?

I'm not a religious person, per se. Maybe even borderline atheist. But I've studied quite a bit of theology, and a lot of revolutionary science sprang from religious minds. I don't think you can pigeonhole free thinking in either camp.

[Rising Dead Man]

But I think they have a point with if you don't have a functioning brain and organs you can't be alive or conscious, so how would your energy be experiencing an afterlife?

[NeverMore]

I may read too much science fiction but I refuse to think that sentient life has to be surrounded by a bag of bones. I envision the day when our computers get so advanced that they will become self-aware. An electronic form of life. Mankind's children. Let's see if they cast off their gods like we did ours.

Heck, scientists have recently built a transistor out of a single atom. How long before they can store data on a single electron? Put enough of those electrons together in, say a lightning bolt, and you may have enough space to store the sum of a human's memories. At that point you just need a retrieval system to recreate a person's life.

Mankind is still young. Forming a steadfast opinion on what happens to you when you die is like asking a toddler to decide what they want to do with their life. Maybe some day, when we know more about where the source of human consciousness lies, then we can start making guesses about our ultimate destination.

For now? The best you can do is believe what makes you feel better. I prefer to believe the afterlife, if there is one, is like the movie 'What Dreams May Come'.

[Rising Dead Man]

I cant help but think your life and consciousness is in your brain which eventually shuts down and rots away. It's sad but to me it makes sense.

[NeverMore]

I figure it may be any of the following three...

• 1. Consciousness is located in the brain, in which case you're probably right. It sure does open up some interesting possibilities. What happens once we learn how to manipulate and repair the brain? What will happen when you clone a dead person? A twin, or a duplicate?
  
  2. It's located in something non-physical, like the soul? Good argument for the religious folk, and people who believe in some kind of afterlife. Do animals have souls? Will computers gain souls once they become aware? Or will they never become aware because they don't have souls?
  
  3. It's located in another dimension and we live in a Matrix type world. In other words, we actually live in another dimension and our bodies are just the physical extension of us in this one? I guess this is a lot like number two but there would be a scientific explanation for it.

I'm sure there are other thoughts on where consciousness may lie, any number of which could account for the possibility of us living beyond our bodies.

[Rising Dead Man]

I must make a confession: I've never seen the matrix.

[NeverMore]

Oh my... you need to embrace your inner geek.

[Tee]

Bwahahaha =P

Back to the battery....if you transfer all the energy from the battery to, say, a flashlight, I guess it might be the same as the human energy actually dying with the person, because the flashlight stops working when the battery dies.

But if you take the energy from the battery and send it to my camera, the camera still works for a little while after the battery has gone dead. (Maybe 5-7 shots.) So that residual energy...couldn't that be a little like the residual energy in haunted sites that some people believe are ghosts or spirits?

Then again, it could be that the battery isn't completely dead? Maybe it doesn't have enough energy to power a flashlight (in the case of a human, speaking, thinking, walking, etc.), but it might have enough to power a camera (rustling curtains, flickering a candle flame, tapping on a wall, etc.).

Just nattering...

[NeverMore]

Good example Tee.

There's an article today on i09 about some of the things I've been babbling about. I missed the news stories about a self-aware robot having been created, which turns out to not be true.

http://io9.com/5938529/no-we-didnt-just ... ware-robot

[Murfreesboro]

I followed your YouTube link this morning, RDM, and found the conversation quite calm and reasonable. However, I was not equally impressed by the comments that followed. It was pretty clear to me that most of those people have not read the Bible and know very little about Jesus. I think it would be very difficult for an open-minded person to read about Jesus and not regard him as an impressive, even heroic, man. He was intellectually keen, spiritually courageous, and compassionate. I think even people who have no belief in any God would concede these points, if they are being honest.

Belief in an after-life, not to mention God, is always going to be a matter of faith. Philosophic materialists like the men in the video are not going to be able to accept either. I guess I come down in Nevermore's second category, people who think that there is a soul and that it is non-physical. (BTW, I also believe that animals have souls, or spirits if you prefer that terminology, and that they, too, survive into an after-life. This is not necessarily an orthodox Christian view; yet every image of Paradise in the Bible has animals in it, so I think they are there.)

I guess one reason why I choose to be a person of faith rather than relying entirely on my reason is that I see I cannot live without it. I am not talking right now about religious faith, but just faith in general. I tell my kids that anything they will ever do in their lives that really matters will be an act of faith. If they can get a money-back guarantee, it means that thing didn't really matter. You can get a guarantee on a refrigerator, but not when you contract a marriage, or have a child, or even when you choose a profession. Everything in your life that really matters to you is an act of faith. You can't live without it.

[Tee]

You can get a guarantee on a refrigerator, but not when you contract a marriage, or have a child, or even when you choose a profession. Everything in your life that really matters to you is an act of faith. You can't live without it.

Wow! That's a very profound point of view that I've never considered before. But I think you're absolutely right on the money there.

Besides, if everything came with a guarantee, I think things would get a little boring.

[Pumpkin_Man]

Folks please don't get me wrong. I very believe that people do experience the paranormal. I very much do believe in the world of the supernatural, if for no other reason, because I believe in God and Religion. I believe that those experiences are only experienced by certain people, and I am not one of them. I never saw a ghost, or experienced anything more phenominal then Desa Vu, but I do not totaly disbelieve the experiences of others. The head psychiatrist himself experienced a supernatural experience at the Bartonville Insane Asylum. He was a doctor, with serious post graduate education. Many people, including police officers, teachers, and in just about every other walk of life claim to have seen ghosts or have had paranormal experiences. There's even a tv show about celebrities who have had such experiences. These are highly intelligent, highly educated, highly successful people who are not given to abberitions by nature. Some of these celebs are among the most pragmatic individuals in the world. If they claim to have seen a ghost or have had a paranormal experience, I believe them.

[MacPhantom]

I figure it may be any of the following three...

• 1. Consciousness is located in the brain, in which case you're probably right. It sure does open up some interesting possibilities. What happens once we learn how to manipulate and repair the brain? What will happen when you clone a dead person? A twin, or a duplicate?
  
  2. It's located in something non-physical, like the soul? Good argument for the religious folk, and people who believe in some kind of afterlife. Do animals have souls? Will computers gain souls once they become aware? Or will they never become aware because they don't have souls?
  
  3. It's located in another dimension and we live in a Matrix type world. In other words, we actually live in another dimension and our bodies are just the physical extension of us in this one? I guess this is a lot like number two but there would be a scientific explanation for it.

Two of the three aren't particularly testable, and therefore not scientific. I've always been inclined to find corroborating evidence more convincing than theories that sound kinda cool but haven't anything to back them up, at least when it comes to forming my opinions of how the world works. For me, faith is like video games. I don't begrudge others their fun, but personally I just don't see the appeal.

[VanHelsingStandIn]

I admit I'm a skeptic. It comes from seeing so many people who are cons, frauds and liars. More than a few are emotionally disturbed as well.

I've waited my whole life to see something paranormal, and I'm still waiting.

These people claim to have seen ghosts, demons, God, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, chupacabra, Mothman, Elvis, Men in Black, honest politicians.........You get the idea.

But they're like 38 years old never had a date and only have a part time job at Taco Bell and still live at home in their moms basement. Kind of hard to look at people like that as credible.

I have a friend though whos mom died of breast cancer when he was only 12. A few years later he and his father both had strange experinces in their home. They hear footsteps walking down a hallway, and nobody there. The front door opening and closing but nobody there. The door to his bedroom opening by itself. Then the samething happening to the fathers bedroom door.

I don't believe he or his father was lying to me when they told me these things. He and his father wanted to believe it was the mother coming back to check on them from time to time. My friend said that gave him a feeling of security and peace.

I've always wondered if it wasn't possible for my friend and/or his father to have caused these things themselves. Considering what we have come to know about psycho and telekinesis maybe they were able to tap into something we're not quite sure about yet.

As the years went on, my friend got older and met a girl, got married, moved out and started his own life. The father sold the house to a developer and made quite a healthy sum from it. They had not had anything occur for several years while they did this and they figured it was due to the mother moving on after seeing things were going to be okay with them.

I always thought they had more to do with the mother coming and going than they thought about. Regardless of how real or how much was in their minds we'll never know, but it did get them through a tough stretch of their lives. Thats got to be a good thing no matter how you look at it.